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Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

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optmaxx
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Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by optmaxx » May 30th, 2019, 7:56 pm

I was having a hard time finding a new flexplate (PN: FRA-410 for Pioneer) for my 1990 Wrangler with the A999 transmission, because it says that it's been discontinued or sold out everywhere I looked. Even other manufacturers like ATP, Crown and BK say that it's not available for that specific year, or I have to place an order and wait and see if the manufacturer has it. I also called the dealership, and even they told me that they don't make them anymore for that year.

So I called O'Riely's, and the person that helped me supposedly found one for my year Wrangler, so I got it today for a pretty good price; but I felt that it was too good to be true and double checked the part number, and I was right because they ended up selling me the FRA-108 flexplate which fits 87-88 Wrangles with the 258 and A999 trans. So I felt frustrated, but when I looked up the FRA-410, which is supposed to be for 88-90 Wranglers, and the FRA-108, which is for 87-88 Wranglers, they both looked the same on paper so I'm confused.

They both are for Wranglers with the 258, and the A999 trans, both are the same diameter of 13.83, both have 164 teeth, and both have a torque converter mounting hole spread of 11.25 inch, but the FRA-108 they sold me says that it doesn't fit my 1990 Jeep, but the FRA-410 has been discontinued so I'm kind of stuck on what to do.

Are the FRA-108 and FRA-410 the same, and can the FRA-108 be used on my 1990 Jeep? Why would they discontinue the Flexplates for 88-90 Wranglers, but still make them for 87-88?

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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by optmaxx » May 30th, 2019, 10:38 pm

So judging from some of the swaps I've read, I think I should be fine right? If it's ok to use a 4.0 Flexplate on an A999 transmission for a 4.0 swap, then I should be ok seeing that the two parts are pretty much identical...right?

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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by IH 392 » May 30th, 2019, 11:23 pm

Somewhere right about in there?, they changed the height/offset of the ring gear, for some reason??
the early one may fit way back on the 258's too?
If it is the ring gear issue?, a change of the starter would be required too.
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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by optmaxx » July 22nd, 2019, 9:20 pm

Yup, I installed the fra-108 flexplate on my 1990 YJ and now my starter's gear can't reach the ring gears because the ring gears are a bit further back. The gears on both seemed to be on the same level when I out them next to each other, but the fra-108's is a little more convex on the front and a little more concave in the back compared to the flexplate I replaced. So now I'm stuck trying to figure out what to do about the starter issue cause it won't be as easy as just buying the appropriate starter for the fra-108, and just swap it out and reconnect the wires as far as I can tell.

The fra-108 I installed is meant for an 87-88 YJ, and it's corresponding starter doesn't have it's solenoid piggy backing it like my 1990 YJ's, so I guess it's external. So is it possible to use the existing 2 wires from my 1990 YJ harness on the external solenoid so that I can use the 87-88 starter on my YJ? Or can I use my 1990's starter solenoid for the 87-88 starter by removing it from the starter, and just find a spot to mount it?

The flexplate bolted up fine, but I'm not looking forward to doing this job again if I have to, so I'm hoping that I can just swap out the starter.
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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by IH 392 » July 24th, 2019, 8:45 pm

Your last pic of the early "solenoid" isn't really a solenoid, it's just a HEAVY DUTY! relay, it must be used with the early "moving pole shoe" type starter, just hook the wires from your old starter to the relay, the little wire goes on the "S" terminal, and you'll have to get another battery cable to go from the relay to the starter.
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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by optmaxx » July 27th, 2019, 12:38 am

IH 392 wrote:
July 24th, 2019, 8:45 pm
Your last pic of the early "solenoid" isn't really a solenoid, it's just a HEAVY DUTY! relay, it must be used with the early "moving pole shoe" type starter, just hook the wires from your old starter to the relay, the little wire goes on the "S" terminal, and you'll have to get another battery cable to go from the relay to the starter.
Thanks. At least I'll get a beefier flexplate, and possibly a beefier starter after all of this cause the fra-108 did look a bit thicker compared to the '90s YJ flexplate.

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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by optmaxx » July 31st, 2019, 1:49 am

I got it all hooked up today with parts I got from an 87 YJ donor at a Jeep JY, but it didn't turn, didn't even get a sound from the 87 starter relay.



I found a spot to mount the older relay, and even made sure I got good ground by sanding off paint where I mounted it so I don't think that could be it? I did some tests with a multi meter and test lamp, and found that I'm not getting 12v from the little green wire that's supposed to supply 12v to the starter when the key is on start, and it's also the one that I had to connect to the "S" terminal on the 87's relay, but I'm not 100% certain what it could be? I get about 1 point something volts from that green wire when someone is turning the key to start, so that doesn't sound right. Now I'm thinking that it's probably the 1990 starter relay that could be bad?



When testing the 1990 relay, I get 12v from the battery terminal, and 12v from the fuel pump ballast resistor terminal, and about 1v from the the starter solenoid terminal. I'll have to do more tests cause from I found out, the black and white wire that goes connected to the grnd on the 1990 relay is the wire that supplies the 12v, and the other green wire that goes connected to the ignition terminal is controlled by the NSS. I forgot to mention that I did't get 12v from the 87's relay terminal that goes to the starter when someone turns that key to start as well.


So far I think that it's either the 1990 starter relay, or maybe some wires are too corroded, but what do you guys think? Am I supposed to be getting 12v from the little green wire that I'm supposed to connect to the 87's donor relay "S" terminal when the key is on start? Or could I just have a bad starter or relay from the 87 donor? Probably should take the starter to get tested as well.

1990 Starter solenoid:
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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by optmaxx » August 2nd, 2019, 3:02 pm

I went and got another starter from the JY after it tested bad at Autozone, and they tested the replacement in the office with some kind of jumper. I also bought a new external '87 starter solenoid to hopefully rule that out as the problem, but I sill got nothing after hooking everything up. I took the '87 starter to Orielys to get tested and it's fine apparently. All I hear when I turn the key are my relays that are located under the hood on the passenger side click. I charged my battery, so I'm sure I should have enough juice to get a bump, but could my battery not be enough for this bigger-older-starter and relay?

I want to say that it's probably the '90s starter relay, but lets say the '90s starter relay wasn't working. Would I'd still be able to turn the engine over by bypassing the '87 starter solenoid, or by using a remote starter switch on it? Or would I not be able to even bump the engine by bypassing the '87 starter solenoid, if the '90s starter relay was bad? I checked all the grounds with a lamp tester, and they look good to me.

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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by IH 392 » August 4th, 2019, 12:03 am

If you short the "S" terminal to the battery the starter should turn the engine over, if it does it's not the starter system, it's the ignition/starter switch side.
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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by optmaxx » August 4th, 2019, 1:17 am

IH 392 wrote:
August 4th, 2019, 12:03 am
If you short the "S" terminal to the battery the starter should turn the engine over, if it does it's not the starter system, it's the ignition/starter switch side.
Ok. I saw a video on how to test the Ford style starter solenoid with a multi meter, and I think the new one might be bad. I did a continuity test by placing the positive probe from the multi meter on the "S" terminal, and the negative probe on the mounting bracket where the solenoid gets it's ground, and I got nothing. I remember having another starter solenoid (pn# SS588) in the garage, so I did the same continuity test on that and it passed, so I'm fairly certain that the new solenoid is bad; time to exchange it.

Just wondering, but would I be able to use the solenoid I had in my garage on the set up I'm trying to get to work? The PN# is SS588.

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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by IH 392 » August 4th, 2019, 9:14 pm

The "I" terminal is to give the ignition circuit full battery juice on resisted points systems, simply ignore it.
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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by I6FAN » August 4th, 2019, 11:10 pm

There is a difference between auto and manual solenoids also; auto has an extra terminal, on the bottom, for Neutral Safety Switch. Starter motors may be different between auto and manual also, thus affecting ring gear engagement, but not entirely sure (?).

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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by optmaxx » August 5th, 2019, 1:37 am

I6FAN wrote:
August 4th, 2019, 11:10 pm
There is a difference between auto and manual solenoids also; auto has an extra terminal, on the bottom, for Neutral Safety Switch. Starter motors may be different between auto and manual also, thus affecting ring gear engagement, but not entirely sure (?).
I did get one for an auto, and there was an extra plug terminal on the bottom rear of the solenoid. Do I need to wire that to something, or ground it?

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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by I6FAN » August 5th, 2019, 1:58 am

The Neutral Safety Switch plugs in there. The switch connects to ground when gear shift activates it. If you jumped it to ground it might start in "D" and "R"......

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Re: Flexplate fra-108 vs fra-410. What's the difference?

Post by optmaxx » August 7th, 2019, 9:03 pm

Tested my battery, and it was bad. It wasn't producing the juice my Jeep needed to turn on, even when fully charged.

Knowing that, and knowing that I needed to splice in a wire from the '87 starter solenoid to my '90 NSS pigtail, I went and grabbed a battery from another car and hooked it all up, and it finally fired up. Didn't hear any odd noises, so I let it run for a while. Now I just need to get a better battery.

Here's and updated diagram on how I wired the '87 starter and solenoid to the 1990 ignition system.
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