Machine Shop Work Recommendations

[Tango34]

I'm looking at buying one of Russ's kits but I'm really stuck on what I should be asking the machine shop to do. I'm a complete novice at engine building while I can wrap my head around the assembly pretty well I'm finding the machine shop part of it confusing. Every thread I read there is someone saying to get different stuff done.

I guess I'm going for this "modified poor man stroker" setup. I already have a 4.2 crank.

So I basically just need to tell the machine shop the below? any help would be appreciated. (either going to buy Russ's head or get a standard one redone) Is there anything i specifically need to tell the machine shop about how I'm building this? I've never worked with a machine shop before I want to go in with pretty specific instructions so this all goes together correctly. I'm also confused should I have the machine work done first THEN buy the kit to make sure all the bearings required etc are the correct size?

1. hot tank
2. bore 0.30 over (per pistons size quoted by Russ)
3. surface deck to 9.450 height
4. line hone main bearings
5. install cam bearings
6. 0.10 off crank
7. balance crank

[KarmaKannon1]

I'm looking at buying one of Russ's kits but I'm really stuck on what I should be asking the machine shop to do. I'm a complete novice at engine building while I can wrap my head around the assembly pretty well I'm finding the machine shop part of it confusing. Every thread I read there is someone saying to get different stuff done.

I guess I'm going for this "modified poor man stroker" setup. I already have a 4.2 crank.

So I basically just need to tell the machine shop the below? any help would be appreciated. (either going to buy Russ's head or get a standard one redone) Is there anything i specifically need to tell the machine shop about how I'm building this? I've never worked with a machine shop before I want to go in with pretty specific instructions so this all goes together correctly. I'm also confused should I have the machine work done first THEN buy the kit to make sure all the bearings required etc are the correct size?

1. hot tank
2. bore 0.30 over (per pistons size quoted by Russ)
3. surface deck to 9.450 height
4. line hone main bearings
5. install cam bearings
6. 0.10 off crank
7. balance crank

Russ can probably help you with a list and support on required machine work, but here's what I had done and why.

Checked the deck and decked if needed.
Bored to the physical pistons with the specd clearance. The shop wanted the pistons and spec sheet on hand for this.
Check cam bearings (mine were almost new and stayed in).
Ground crank to minimum required to get it flat with oil chamfers (they screwed up on mine, but it's a long story that's hopeful getting fixed now)
My engine was rebuilt three thousand miles ago and all bearings looked good so I saved some money on the hot tank and line bore. If it was an old engine with a lot of wear I would have done both.
If you are trying to find a good machine shop you might find help on a local hot rod or jeep type forum. I found mine because they built a sweet engine for a customer's race truck that I was building some sweet headers for. First and only set of headers I've built were equal length(more or less) 40" (if I recall) primary headers that wrapped around suspension and roll cage. Super fun!

[Bertismyname]

Find a reputable shop first. Have them measure and inspect your parts. Machine as needed. To get the deck height correct, the engine will need to be partially assembled to get an accurate deck height. They will charge for mock up. So , bring all your parts back home for mockup. Take the mockup back to the shop for measuring and final Decking. Decking the block for compression is a slightly different process than Decking for flatness as would be done in a standard rebuild. If you are going to have it balanced, take your harmonic balancer and flywheel/ flex pate to the balancer. Some money can be saved by disassembling and cleaning your block at home. Pull the oil galley and freeze plugs. Take a pressure washer and bore brushes to all the holes. Clean thoroughly. When you think its clean. Keep cleaning.

[Tango34]

I had asked Russ about machine work in our emails and it was kinda glossed over so I came to the conclusion I would be on my own for figuring out the machine work specs. If he provides all the info on what the machine shop should do when purchasing a kit that would save me a lot of time and frustration of trying to figure this out. I'll have to follow up with him and see if that's the case. I'm just trying to get a quote from the machine shop so I know what this is going to cost me. I don't want to buy the kit and then find out the machine work is going to be significantly more than I'm expecting.

[Bertismyname]

If your machine shop can't figure it out, you need to find another one. Any machine shop familiar with custom engines and hotrodding can do this. There is plenty documentation for these builds out there. A rebuilder is not necessarily a machine shop. They are production shops. If the shop is hesitant to do the job or spend some time researching the build up, you're dealing with the wrong people.

[Bertismyname]

I dont know where you are. But here in California the required machining will run anywhere from 1500 to 2000 or so.

[Tango34]

This is why the internet confuses me lol. I've had people telling me in other groups "make sure you write down exactly what you want the machine shop to do or you'll regret it" then I get "let them figure it out". You can see why this part has me more frazzled then actually building the engine. I'm in IL so shop prices around here are likely cheaper I know CA can be pretty expensive. I appreciate all the advice just every time I think it's figured out I find conflicting information.

[Russ Pottenger]

Kyle,

More than happy to help you through the parts selection Process along with supplying specifications you can forward to your chosen machine shop, or as in many other customers have done they’re (Machine shop)welcome to call and talk to me directly.

We’ve done three quotes and two different combinations. Each time takes a different spec sheet.

That’s why after about the 20th email I requested you to call me to save time and help simplify the process.

Hope this helps to clarify I am more than happy to help you with the process in anyway that I can.

Thanks,
Russ

[Russ Pottenger]

Kyle,

More than happy to help you through the parts selection Process along with supplying specifications you can forward to your chosen machine shop, or as in many other customers have done they’re (Machine shop)welcome to call and talk to me directly.

We’ve done three quotes and two different combinations. Each time takes a different spec sheet.

That’s why after about the 20th email I requested you to call me to save time and help simplify the process.


Hope this helps to clarify I am more than happy to help you with the process in anyway that I can.

Thanks,
Russ

My Mistake Kyle!

I was responding to your post confusing you with a interaction of another customer.

My apologies,
Russ

[Bertismyname]

This is why the internet confuses me lol. I've had people telling me in other groups "make sure you write down exactly what you want the machine shop to do or you'll regret it" then I get "let them figure it out". You can see why this part has me more frazzled then actually building the engine. I'm in IL so shop prices around here are likely cheaper I know CA can be pretty expensive. I appreciate all the advice just every time I think it's figured out I find conflicting information.

"Figuring it out" meaning, let the machine shop take the required measurements and inspect the parts to be machined. Not to be an ass. But if you knew ahead of time what machine work was required you probably would not be asking questions. The machine shop will do whatever you tell them. Make your decision based upon input from the machine shop and input from parts suppliers/ manufacturers. Russ can give you a good idea of what is needed. But, without physically putting hands on your block there is no way to know.
Unfortunately that means investing some money that you may get nothing in return for.

Magnifluxing, sonic checking, dye penetrant, thorough measuring all cost money and time. Skipping these steps and going straight to machine work could potentially cost you thousands in the long run. Versus a couple hundred upfront. Having this work performed will answer the question of what actually needs to be done to build a reliable engine.

[Russ Pottenger]

Working with an experienced qualified machine shop should take a lot of the intimidation factor out of doing the project.

Same goes with a properly assembled stroker kit.
Speaking for myself I have over 30 different pistons in my inventory. The majority of the differences is in A variety of dish volumes in predominantly 3.905/4.6 and 3.935/4.7 bores.

Because of the 1.385 Compression height of my pistons you could choose to not surface the block and with my steel rods bushed, you could assemble the piston rod assembly yourself.

Now it just becomes a math equation once you know the combustion chamber volume of your cylinder head, I can then match it up with the correct piston dish to get you to the static compression ratio that you’ll need that will be determined by which octane fuel grade level you wish to run.

Now your machine shop just needs to bore and hone the cylinder walls to its proper sizing and install the cam bearings that’s included in the kit and you’re ready to assemble.