4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

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Mike B
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4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

Hey all, my name is Mike, and heres a little back info to get started with since I have not done an intro yet. Ill try to keep this as short as possible, but I do have questions about swapping the engine to an older jeep.

I have recently acquired a Jeep Tj that has a built 4.6L stroker in it. The Jeep itself is in pretty rough shape, so sadly, the engine wont be staying with the jeep, I have other plans for the Tj anyway. The engine was just built in the summer of 2018, with all internal components from Clegg engine, cam, crank, pistons, lifters, etc. Also noteworthy is that it has 24lb injectors from clegg as well. The block apparently came from a 2002 jeep, it does not have the mounting holes for the coil on the passenger side like any of the earlier model blocks would. It has a 0331 TUPY head that's been machined out to accept oversized valves for intake and exhaust. He also installed a wideband on the jeep to monitor the AFR, and from what I understand is that it always ran near the stoichiometric ratio of 14.7. The engine can haul @$$ from what I gather, I helped my buddy build the engine and he was able to enjoy for a little while before the Tj gave him too many issues with the drivetrain. There were no pinging sounds or knocking coming from it whatsoever.

My questions pertain to some of the electrical and performance requirements of the engine. Since the block is an 02, it came with the horseshoe intake, I am curious to know if all of the sensors attached to the intake and throttle body will work with the older ECU. Ill be swapping this engine into a 95 Xj, which has a complete ECU and harness and is currently running with 0 issues. I know that there will be wire splicing necessary, which is fine since I have access to electrical diagrams.

So onto fuel delivery, I imagine Ill have to keep the fuel rail from the 95 since it has the return line to the tank, but for fuel pressure, should I get an adjustable regulator? Im sure that the answer will be contingent upon the internal components of the engine, but it has the 24lb injectors installed, and from what Ive read, the stock fuel pressure for the 95 jeeps is around 39 psi, I have also verified this with a pressure tester. The cam that's installed in the engine allows it breathe pretty good, and after running through the calculators to determine what kind of compression ratios ill be running, I have determined that I would be able to run 87 octane through the engine, don't know if I will risk it though. I forget the exact numbers, but Im looking at and DCR somewhere in the neighborhood of 7.0.

Is there anything else that I may be able to do to make this engine run to its full capability? I have searched for piggy back tuners and other mods to help run this engine, most of the searching has lead to helpless deadends sadly.
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Cheromaniac »

The engine should run fine with the stock '95 ECU. To save yourself from having to buy another set of injectors, just buy an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and set it at the same 49psi of the '96-'04 fuel systems.
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by letitloose06 »

If the block is from a 2002, it wont fit. The 2000 and up TJ uses a different block casting that will not fit in the XJ.
1992 YJ - 4.0 L, AX-15, 4" RE Standard Lift, 33x12.5R15 Maxxis Big Horn Radials, 8.8 Rear, HP30 front, 4.10's, SYE and CV Driveshaft, Taurus Electric Fan, 136 A GC Alternator, RR HD Steering, JCR Off road Stage 2 Front Bumper, Custom Rear Bumper
Mike B
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

letitloose06 wrote: September 23rd, 2019, 9:21 am If the block is from a 2002, it wont fit. The 2000 and up TJ uses a different block casting that will not fit in the XJ.
I had to search this topic and see that you are correct, without modifying things, this block will not fit down into my xj. Upon measuring the motor mount brackets, I found that the one side had ~1" difference in the width, funny thing is we took that 2002 block and fit it into a 99 tj, which apparently a 99 block would work in an xj, just would have different accessory brackets since its a later model.

I haven't looked into the mods necessary to make the 02 block work yet, but is it really going to be that difficult? I have seen a few posts about compatibility among the years, some about there being an amount of work to be done, but none so far on what actually has to be done to make them work. Anyone have any ideas on this?

At this point in time its either I modify the current block to fit into the xj, or I have another block from a 93 xj that's completely stripped down, I honestly could take it to a machine shop and have them magnaflux the block to make sure its all good then bore it out and possibly even have this one decked down to 0, then swap all the internal components from the 02 block, probably have them polished up a bit by the shop just to make sure everythings all good, get some new rings and call it good. Of course this will cost more money for the machine work and some new parts, but would it save me lots of headache??? This is a headache alone right here, so what would you guys do? If I go this route, there will be some figuring to be done to get the compression ratio up a little, cause I feel like there is power to be left on the table for this engine.
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Cheromaniac »

letitloose06 wrote: September 23rd, 2019, 9:21 am If the block is from a 2002, it wont fit. The 2000 and up TJ uses a different block casting that will not fit in the XJ.
The difference is in the position of the bolt bosses for the engine mount brackets and the AC/alternator mounting brackets.
The latter is easily solvable by using the '00+ TJ bracket, while the former will require custom brackets. That may be a lot less headache than building another engine based on an XJ block.
Mike B
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

Im leaning more towards having an xj block get machined out and then buying new components suited for that block now. It really depends on whether I find a local machinist to do the work I need done between the head and the block. The reason I let it go down to the machine work is because that will be the greatest variable in the whole build, I know what everything else will cost. When my buddy built the block in the Tj, he spent over $1K in machine work between the head and the block, though sleeving one cylinder did add to the cost quite a bit. If my Xj block requires any of that, then I may just drop this whole idea, as costs will add up quick. It would also be nice to build this engine to be able to run on a lower octane gas as well, benefit of building engine as opposed to trying to run this one in there. That and keeping all the xj accessory brackets will be nice as well, I have the Xj setup with OBA. Would be more difficult to do that with the 02 block having the ac pump down under the power steering pump, also the potential interference with the steering gear box has me leary of doing the swap. The ac pump would probably clear, but the lower radiator hose would be tight with the way that the water pumps are built on the 02 block.

Ill keep ya posted on what happens, as most of you know, itll be a drawn out process, need to find my machinist first before I buy any parts. Guess Ill work on building an axle for the Tj sooner now, and fixing the electrical issues for that.
Mike B
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

Had some time and called a machine shop this morning to get an idea of what it would cost to have all the machine work done to a head and block. So without any specific order, here is the work to be done:
Hot tank and clean block, pressure test block as opposed to magna flux, bore and hone, deck block, install new cam bearings and freeze plugs/any other replaceable parts, and re tank block.
Head work would be 3 angle valve job, cut guides down for larger lift cam, knurling and reaming of guides, resurfacing and pressure testing the head.

Altogether I'm looking at a rough estimate of $1,037 without and tax. I'm going to call around to a couple of other shops and see what their pricing is, but this quote comes from a reputable shop in my area.
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Russ Pottenger »

Mike,

Your machine shop may be giving you some general information, but regarding your cylinder head work it won’t be necessary to cut down your guide for retainer clearance and I wouldn’t recommend knurling them.

As a general rule guide wear isn’t a problem in our 4.0 heads but if they are worn out replacing them with a solid guide or bronze liner guide is a better method.
Mike B
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

Alright, so I talked to another shop, it seems that the pricing for the work in this area is consistent between shops.

Russ, I hear ya on saying no to knurling, this other shop said if the guides are worn, they would install the brass liners to correct the wear.

So with that, before I send anything to them, I'd have to get some parts from somewhere. My buddy built his engine with parts from clegg, as stated, and the engine runs pretty damn good, albeit the electrical issue. I'm leaning towards ordering through them for my build, but am open for suggestions if anyone on this forum has any suggestions.

Russ, I have seen a few other posts where you offer consulting and may even distribute parts, do you offer full kits by chance?
Mike B
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

Called up clegg and got a quote from them for:

-Stage 2 stroker kit with forged icon pistons at 27.5cc, obviously the scat crank, scat forged free float rods, moly rings, clevite bearings, blanced rotating assembly and 24lb injectors.

-Stage 2 Cam kit which will include a double roller timing set by jp performance, new pushrods, valve springs, retainers and over sized valves. Specs on the cam are duration at .050 215 intake, 219 exhaust. .484" lift intake, .480" lift exhaust. Which they state that the head does need a bit of clearance work done on to allow the springs to operate fully.

-62 mm throttle body

-Essentially a stage 3 head machined by them to accept larger valves, porting and polishing, and somw work around the valve pockets to open up the flow rate a little better.

All those parts for a low price of $3,133. I also found a machine shop that can do the works to my block for $345, which includes a thorough degreasing, magnaflux/pressure test, bore and hone, cam bearings and freeze plugs and final cleaning. I'm not sure if resurfacing is included in that price, but that is all that's listed in that description for that service at that price. Still not bad since they come in at $200 less than other shops out here in NY.
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by SkylinesSuck »

He does. I would recommend going through Russ.
Mike B
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

I ended up making a deposit for the head from Clegg, $700 to get a fully machined head to accept the valves and springs that they provide. They also complete port work to open up the flow rate on the head as well, would be stupid not to go this route.

Moving forward, I will end up ordering the kits from Clegg engine, my buddy had no complaint with their parts of their customer service. They have been helpful so far with all my questions that I have as well. With those components, I have done a compression ratio calculation and end up with a SCR of 8.713 and DCR of 8.000. This calculation is done with assuming some of the numbers that I cannot or have not measured yet, but using standards that I have found browsing through forums. So that you guys can check me, here's what I'm working with as far as numbers, any asterisks are the researched numbers: Cylinder head volume* 58CC, Piston dish 27.5CC, Gasket thickness* .043", Gasket bore* 4.000", Cylinder bore 3.905", Deck clearance* .0245", Stroke 3.895"; to calculate the DCR I used the numbers provided by Clegg for the camshaft (for this I assumed 0 degree of advance as its not listed) and plugged those numbers into a calculator to figure out the timing of the intake valve closing which is 42 degrees ABDC, Rod length 6.125".

So to figure the deck clearance, I used a block height of 9.450", rod length is obviously 6.125", piston compression height I researched to be 1.353 and then using half of the stroke, which gives me .0245". With the gasket thickness at .043", I have a quench height of .0675". With the way the CR numbers are, Id be able to bring the deck height down to .014 to tighten up the quench height and it would bring my DCR up to 8.148 or I could go to .010" to bring the DCR up to 8.206 (quench height .053"). Looks like no matter what I'll be running the engine with at least 91 octane gas, but would it be safe to run a DCR of 8.2 with 91 octane?

Sites used for calculations:
https://uempistons.com/p-27-compression ... lator.html
https://mgispeedware.com/camshaft-calculator/
Mike B
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

Alright, I have received a bunch of parts for the building and am about to send the block to the machine shop. Everything's still boxed up to help prevent moisture from getting at it until I can assemble the engine anyway. Parts received: crankshaft, camshaft, connecting rods (arp studded, free float scats, which are going to be a breeze to install), rod bearings, main bearings, cam bearings, piston rings, pistons, push rods, lifters, 62mm throttle body, stage 3 head complete with new valves and springs. So theres most of the critical internal parts, I will order the oil pump before long, but I'm not sure if I should go with a HV pump or just go with the standard pump. I'll need some opinions and experiences with making that decision. I would also like some recommendation with which ignition to order, been looking at that, but would also like to know of someone's experience with aftermarket ignition.

So before I go ahead and send the block to the shop with final orders, I'm trying to get an idea of how much to deck the block. I've been doing some more figuring with the compression ratio calculators cause I recieved a sheet with the cam that provides the other specs that I needed (°IVC), and with a 0 deck clearance, I'd be in the neighborhood of 7.33 DCR. I'm curious to know if I should go with a negative .010" deck, havent done the math on that yet though. I will list some numbers on here later on after I get done with work, cause I'd really like someone to check my work to ensure I'm not screwing these calculations up.

P.S. if it would help, I could put an actual build thread up, or just keep it rolling in here if nobody minds. I'll also post a photo of the jeep the engine is going in as well.
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Mike B
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

Guess I cant put two photos in the same post, oh well, here ya go. The orange one in the back ground is also mine, the 98 tj with the other 4.6L.
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Mike B
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Re: 4.6L Sawp into 95 Xj

Post by Mike B »

Figured I'd post an update, progress has been slow on the build as work has been a little overwhelming. I sent the block to the shop, they did all of the work to it to turn it into something usable. Apparently the block had abnormal wear at the tops of the cylinder walls, so it was necessary to bore it over to .060", no big deal to me either way, it just means a little more power. Also decided to mill the block deck down .023", the guy that owned the shop was a little worried about going too far, and was convinced that since it's not a race engine, why go too far unless I was willing to take time to measure everything to ensure proper clearance.

So I've been working on acquiring all the miscellaneous parts now, gaskets, bolts, new harmonic balancer, basically everything that I'll need to build the engine and swap it out with the old one some day soon. I also called up clegg again to order the Garland sharp roller rockers and head studs. Figured that if I needed to buy new head volts anyway, why not upgrade to studs? I also got a measuring tool to figure out the length of pushrod I'll need since milling down the deck will end up changing some things.

Once I receive the gaskets in the mail, I can get to work on building the engine finally. Looking forward to this part finally.
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