New 4.6L stroker build

[SilverXJ]

I did a Nissan 240 sx about 5 years ago, fun toy and fast.

Reminds me of a guy I met at a club last weekend... he tried to tell me he was going to be making 600 hp with just a turbo on his stock engine... right...

It runs great on 87 octane.

Good to know. I was wondering if it would or not. I don't mine running premium but if I could run regular that would be good.

I don't want a droning type, like a flowmaster, but when I get into it I want to hear it.

The only exhaust that I have heard that I actually liked on a 4.0L what Ghetto's from Naxja and JU... search on youtube for it.. its a FM50 and asplit resonate tail pipe IIRC. Too loud for my tastes on a daily driver though, but sounds great. I have a Gibson exhaust and its ok.. doesn't sound bad, not loud enough to be annoying either. I would have gone with something else but I got it for cheap.

Be sure to use a non-detergent oil when breaking it in. Detergent oils keep the metal suspended in it, where a non-detergent would let more rest in the pan. and use a ZDDP additive as comp cams recommends.

I'm using Joe Gibbs break in, probably a little of teh comp cams break in lube, but not much as Joe Gibbs comes with a lot of stuff already in it.

plus changed the filter.

Picked up a M1 301 Filter for after the break in as well yesterday.

I also drilled a tiny little hole at 12:00 o'clock in the thermostat, this allows the air to self bleed from the system. a cool little trick I read about somewhere.

The high flow 180* I am using has a jiggle ball already for the air bleed.

I enjoy it. Today I retorqued the head, although it hadn't changed. And the cam still has all the lobes so I got that going.

Not necessary on this engine.

I also have to mention again how impressive your project is. Really clean. That sticker on the pan is slick and your attention to detail is impressive. I'm sure you'll have a great running rig with plenty of power. And all out of a storage unit, don't let them find you working on it. some of those places ban it due to fire danger and the mess it makes.

Thanx I try to keep things looking professional. Plus clean makes it easier to work on. The 4.6L on the oil pan is actually paint. I used some scrap paint mask and hit it with some silver. After it goes in I don't think anyone is going to see it but me. I looked for a storage unit that would let me work on my car there. I think technically that this place isn't allowed to do it, but the manager doesn't have a problem with it as long as I don't make a mess. I've been trying to keep the place clean.. even put down some printer vinyl scraps from work on the floor to cover it.. I just hope it comes up easily when I do leave.

Sorry to drag on and for the detail, I'm just proud of it as I'm sure you are with yours.

This engine and the previous Titan ordeal has drug on for so long that I nearly lost interest in it. I don't know if it is the fact that I am seeing a lot more Cherokees on the road or that I just miss driving it, but I am really looking forward to driving my XJ again.. well.. except the first few 1000 nervous miles where every sound has you investigating, and with the Titan 4.Fail that was like every 500 miles.

Oh ick.. I just noticed its 30* outside.. I could have sworn it said 40* like 1 hour ago...

[Diamond-x]

I had 500+ out of that little Nissan! joking.

Stock it was 140, I was probably getting 170. but it was a fun little project which I sold for a tiny profit to make mortgage. It's nice to have another project to keep me out of trouble.

For me it seems to be feast or famine on the Cherokee. Some days I get alot done. I should be out ther measuring for a Tom Woods SYE, then tearing out the TC fo rthe rebuild. I'm just not motivated today.

At any rate keep up the good work and pics. I'm interested in the level of performance from your build.

[SilverXJ]

It's in. Not running yet. Most stuff is hooked up. It went pretty smoothly, but had a bit of hang up getting engine connected to the tranny, and the engine mounts. I Filled the cooling system tonight and found that I need a new rad cap. I was filling from the Tefba filter which is positioned higher than the rad cap and coolant started coming out of the port for the overflow bottle. I also installed some larger battery cables and it took a bit to route them correctly, longer than I planned on. Whats left to do is install the rockers and push rods, seal the valve cover spacer, install the valve cover, connect the wiring for the TB sensors, connect the header to the exhaust, connect the injector wiring, connect the head ground strap, connect the O2 sensors, route the wide band harness away from the exhaust, install the battery, install the electric fan, top the coolant off, bleed the fuel rail, prime, and break the cam in.

Tomorrow will be finishing the install up and then I plan to break the cam in on Wednesday.

I have pics but I will probably put them on tomorrow night. Right now I will enjoy my Sapphire and tonic and watch Breaking Bad.. I'm spent.

-Chris

[jffffl]

Silver, I can't wait for you to get her running. I just took the engine out of my '92, having
just over 190,000 on it. Engine is out, head is off, confirmed burnt valve, should be to
the machine shop before next weekend. My build plan wil be almost identical to yours,
9.56 SCR 8.34 DCR.

[SilverXJ]

Its running.. sort of. It started, backfired, hesitated, bogged down then smoothed out. It did that for about 1-2 minutes. I contributed that to my failure to bleed the fuel rail. I broke the cam in correctly then changed the oil and drove it around a bit. However I have two problems.

One is an of fft fft fft fft sound that is rhythmic and increases with engine RPM. I can't pin point it and it doesn't sound like it is coming from the valve train. Not very loud, but its easier to hear when you step back form the vehicle, but faint up close. Although the best I can hear it it sounds like it is coming from the passenger side near the dipstick area.

The other condition is a momentary lean condition. The lean condition is a bit of a stumper. It happens in closed and open loop, when cold (should be open loop) and while just driving around up to full temp (closed loop), I haven't put the pedal down enough to force it into open loop acceleration. It also appears to happen while driving, accelerating and idling both in gear and park/neutral. Watching the AFR gauge it will go from 14.7 down to like 16-19:1 AFR. It will stay there for a bit then come back to the correct 14.7:1. When this happens it hesitates until the AFR returns to 14.7:1 or so. It hasn't stalled out from this and the PCM is not throwing any codes. No back fire or anything weird either. I tipple checked all the connections on the sensors. and they are all plugged in. So, tomorrow I will plug in my OBD II scan software (if it works) and try to see what is happening. Any ideas? I am also going to try to locate a fuel pressure gauge and test that.

I'm also going to post this in Performance Tech so I can get more eyes on it.

-Chris

[ARH]

I agree, theres no such thing as to many images, the builds without images are the boring ones IMO. I tried to start my own Engine build or should I say drivetrain swap on "Projects" but I cant paste pictures into the text box . If I cant show pictures I figure I won't waste your guys time.

That's easy. You can either host your pics somewhere else (eg. http://www.photobucket.com) and copy the URL links to your message, or you can click "upload attachment" and upload the pics from your harddrive. Now, go post up!

Did you check for codes, Silver?

[SilverXJ]

I did.. the only codes it pulled were for the coil rail not being plugged in. And I cleared those and no other codes showed up. I was thinking out loud about what it could be in my thread in performance tech.

[SilverXJ]

Still fighting it. I'm going to try to see if the machine shop has a fuel pressure gauge I can borrow as mine is in PA and I don't feel like buying a new one. Its like it hits a wall around 3000 RPM and fuel drops out.

Post in performance tech:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=834

I do have a bunch of pics to add, but I don't have time now to.

[SilverXJ]

Well... I don't think there is a problem with any of the sensors. And the fuel pressure tested at a steady 42 psi. The lean condition comes and goes. I believe it has to do with the injector sizing (they are 23.7 lbs, but I had 27lbs in my previous storker and they were too large) and open or closed loop. I can't figure out which loop it is in when it does it either as I said before I am having problems with the Auto Enginuity interface (I tried it on two computers and two different vehicles and same results.. yet the clowns want me to diagnose it further.. so much for support.. they get an F). I did up the levels on the Apexi for the RPM range where it happens and it appears to help, so perhaps it does it in closed loop.. more tuning needs to be done there though. Any how I found that I can drive through it and since the little bit of tuning I did seems to have helped. I'll keep messing with it, but for now I have decided to just drive the damn thing.

So, the pics as I promised from the installation:

Finished on the engine stand and ready to go in:




Chained up and ready to go:


On the driver side I couldn't find a place to put a chain that went at the ends of the block that didn't put pressure on the manifolds... so what I did was run one chain from a bolt on the front to a bolt on the rear then one that went from the middle of that chain up thought the manifolds.


I really wished I had parked it a bit further back at this point



Torquing down the flex plate bolts.. that tool makes it so easy:


Going in


Rear clearance:




Almost in:


Touch down:


Almost completed:


Done and done:


Custom S&B intake, which I would NOT recommend. Without modifying it the hood wouldn't even close. I had to redrill the air box to clear the radiator cap, cut the flange where the tube meets the throttle body, and cut the silicon gasket form the throttle body to the tube. And I just bought it because it had an enclosed box which I could further enclose to the front. At least it was only $99.


Its fast, but I am not pushing it much now. I want it to break in then tune it then push it. The exhaust sounds good. A little valve noise is audible, but I am use to that. I may have an exhaust leak someplace.. not sure yet. If so its not very large.

Now to just getting use to driving it again. The ZJ isn't quite as still in the suspension nor the steering department, nor are the breaks as good nor is it as fast.

I will be putting some miles on it and hopefully this one will hold up better that the Titan 4.Fail.

I still have a few minor things to do: install the new push rods (correct length so I can take out the shims), clean up some wiring, relocate the IAT to the air box, modify the air box more so it gets more cold air, check the transmission fluid, eventually change the coolant, take care of that lean part (larger injectors? just run the apexi? have the computer tune changed?), play with the spark plugs (different heat range maybe? change gap?) and get rid of that damn coil rail... probably more things that I can't remember at the moment.

Now I just need to clean the storage unit up a bit, put away.find some missing tools and sort the pile of crap in the back (boxes, spare parts, parts from the previous stroker, etc).

Oh.. and thanx goes out to Mikey for the rods and Simon for the block.

-Chris

[Diamond-x]

Sweet.

Just a matter of time before you get it dialed in.

[Arizona YJ]

Holy cow. I'm gonna have to admit that your experience scares the hell out of me. I would like to do a stroker but there's no way I can validate the expense you've made. I had it in my mind that I could build a reliable stroker for about $1000 done and in. I see now that I have $500 in pistons to but plus rings, gaskets, machining, timing sets and what not. I don't really need some of the high end parts you used to make me happy but it looks like you really did it right. I love that air box by the way. Anyhow, I know you made one but I would like to see a parts list with pricing so I can see what bottom line would be and see all those other little things I've not thought of yet. Good job on the photos too. I look forward to reading on... i have been checking daily from work. Rock on and keep the info coming

[SilverXJ]

My build was a bit more than most. First, I went with the KB 944 pistons.. and the 4.0L rods. Then I had to purchase a block then there were some tool purchases involved. This was started from 100% scratch. I also did a few things you may or may not find necessary such as ARP rod bolts, lifter bore grooving, wasting a head gasket to finds its compressed thickness, etc. I also used all premium parts at the lowest price I could find. I could have gone with a single row timing set, cheaper bearings, oil pump, pistons, rings, etc. Also, I could have skipped the cryotempering of the rods and bearings and the coating of the header. However the reason I went this route was because I went the cheap route when I went with Titan and I was terribly unhappy with that decision. There are two things I could have done to spend more money 1) longer rods +$450 (eagles w/o going custom), which would require custom pistons, or 2) increased the stroke by offset grinding the crank, which would mean different rods and custom pistons.

My break down:
Parts: $2072.66
Tools: $212.37
Machine work: $850
Total: $3135.03

Now, I could have also gone with a stock 2000-2001 motor. I didn't do that because 1) the 0331 head is prone to cracking, so you don't know if the block you had has had a head crack or not 2) I have seen some nasty looking cams come out of late model engines, including my original one 3) I like power 4) I wanted to build an engine.

[SilverXJ]

A few impressions since I have been driving it for.. oh.. two days or so... There is definitely some piston slap on start up. Its not the piston slap that I am familiar with on older 4.0Ls. In fact if you weren't listening for it you wouldn't know its there. It isn't a good sound but its not very loud and it goes away shortly. I think I have a minor exhaust leak some place.. probably at the header collector.. meh.. i'll deal with that later.

It appears this engine requires a bit more fuel than the short rod stroker I had. The short rod one never had that lean spot around 3k rpm even when running stock injectors. I was able to use the AE OBD II scanner long enough today to find that the long term fuel trim is at +35%. The injectors I have now flow about 23.8lbs. Now on the old 4.6L short rod I had a set of 27lbs injectors that ran too rich(10:1 and lower AFR w/o adjustment). These 23.8lbs obviously run too lean. However, using the 27lb injectors I was able to lean out the mixture to acceptable with the Apexi on teh old engine. I just didn't think that was necessary so I swapped the injectors out. Now with the 23.8lbs I feel that I would be better off with the 27lb ones as 1) the engine seems to need more fuel and 2) I think its safer to run a rich injector than a lean one... opinions on that?

Going from a mostly stock ZJ 4.0L to my XJ is a shock. I have gotten use to the ZJ and getting back in my XJ is just well.. weird.. Suspension stiffer, steering firmer, less play, smaller inside but also a higher ride. Oh.. more power and better brakes.

[Arizona YJ]

well i am seriously thinking of the other route. I would want to build my motor tough as nails so that i don't have the same chance for a second build as you suffered.

I think that it is a sweet motor and i am very happy for you.

this is what my brain is thinkingg about me learning to build performance stroker L6 motors....

[SilverXJ]

One more shot of the engine bay: