Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby Muad'Dib » July 19th, 2011, 2:34 pm

Well i dont know whats going on, but today and today alone i have been running fat. Wideband Shows 12.5 and sometimes 13.x. I dont know why all of the sudden it would do that... but its only been today. I Drove the Jeep at lunch and made sure it was plenty warmed up.. no change.
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby Muad'Dib » July 19th, 2011, 9:01 pm

Weird that today has been like that. When i got in the Jeep today to drive home from work AFR was 14.7ish and stayed that way for the rest of the evening. For whatever reason, the ECU must have thought that it needed a bit more fuel.. im at a loss as to why.

I pulled a plug today and it looks just fine. Doesnt smell of fuel and has a grey burn on it. Not white and not black.

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On that note, as i get closer and closer to being able to do some WOT runs. What should my ideal AFR be when doing a WOT pass? From what i have been able to gather about 12.5 is optimal. I have a feeling though that i will run a bit rich. So what would the best way to lean it out just a tad be?
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby Muad'Dib » July 20th, 2011, 6:46 pm

Muad'Dib wrote:On that note, as i get closer and closer to being able to do some WOT runs. What should my ideal AFR be when doing a WOT pass? From what i have been able to gather about 12.5 is optimal. I have a feeling though that i will run a bit rich. So what would the best way to lean it out just a tad be?


Bump the above and..


Im starting to wonder if my relocated IAT is causing the 12.5 AFR. All day today it has been 12.5-13.5.
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby SilverXJ » July 20th, 2011, 7:40 pm

Yes around 12.5:1 is good for WOT.

I don't think the relocated IAT would have that much of an impact on the AFR. Its mainly the MAP sensor and O2 sensors. Are you sure your O2 sensor is hooked up good? A lose connection could explain the rich afr one day and correct the next day.
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby Muad'Dib » July 21st, 2011, 8:11 am

o2 is good and brand new. It still has the clip so it snaps into place. For shits and giggles this morning before work i unpluged it and pluged it back in. Jeep ran fat again .. actually the worst it ever has. AFR dropped to 10. The Jeep itself didnt run bad just going off the Wideband.

Thoughts? Bad 02 heating element relay? Bad Map?
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby Muad'Dib » July 21st, 2011, 12:21 pm

Today at lunch i looked everything over and everything seems good.

It was also the first time that i got out of the jeep and listened / looked at what was going on under the hood. Everything seemed normal to me except i could hear this gurgling sound from the intake. Almost like a bath tub that has just drained all the water. Its not real loud or anything.. you cant hear it inside the Jeep unless you poke your head under the hood. Weird.

Wideband still shows 12.5 but the Jeep runs great and doesnt smell of fuel.

Im going to check the o2 voltage and ground tonight after work. Im also going to check the best i can the torque on the intake / exhaust manifold bolts.
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby herbiehind » July 21st, 2011, 1:32 pm

sounds like a vacuum leak and you need to let it cool and check all fasteners to the intake gasket . start it and apply carb cleaner to gasket and see if rpms come up . if so ,you gotta redo the gaskets . smell the oil for gas . if it smells dump the oil and find that leak . do not continue to drive it .
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby Muad'Dib » July 21st, 2011, 9:37 pm

I doubt its a vacuum leak. Any leaks on the RENIX era and idle goes up. Idle is perfect. For shits and giggles i checked the manifold bolts... still nice and tight.

I checked the o2 ground and its great.. no resistance to the battery, and 5v is @ 5v.

I checked all the plugs. all but #6 looks like the pics above. #6 looks a little whiter on the prong, and a bit of black specs on the center. None of them smell of gas.

I checked the oil looks good, but does smell of gas. Its not strong, but you can tell its there. Ive got about 175 miles on it. Should i worry about this contamination? Again its not strong at all, but if you put the dipstick up to your nose, you can smell a hint of gas.

I also checked the manifold to front pipe bolts, and they needed to be tightened. Tightened them up and started the Jeep. 12.5 AFR

Im starting to wonder if having a wideband is making me worry for nothing. The Jeep is strong.. just different vibes from the brown dogs.
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby Muad'Dib » July 22nd, 2011, 7:46 am

:doh: :doh:

I realised after i posted last night that when i tested the o2 sensor wires, that i had no resistance to ground, +5v from the ECU, but no +12v for the heating element. So right before bed i swapped around the 02 relay with the relay for the AC. Started her up and now she went to 14.7.

This morning started her up and ran rich for maybe 15 seconds, then went to 14.7. I think i found my problem ;) :wiggle:

Now just to replace the starter.

Also guys, should i worry about the fuel smell in the gas? If so then what is everyone recommending for oil now a days? I dont have any more break in oil, but i have one ZDDP plus left.

Thanks for all your help!
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby herbiehind » July 22nd, 2011, 11:45 am

i had this feint smell of oil on dip stick , but the filter reeked . i was open loop for at least a couple days . thought it was pesky emissions (loose cap) again . then smelled the gas and found 02 problem . i definitely did some lifter damage , just wear. that's why i'm building a stroker now . i'd drop that oil pronto . smell the filter . oil's cheap compared to all the money on your build .
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby SilverXJ » July 22nd, 2011, 5:56 pm

Oil will pick up a gas smell, so you are ok. At one point in my cam bearing adventures I thought that that oil may have been diluted with fuel as it smelled like it. I sent off for an oil analysis. The unit averages are less than 2.0 ppm. Mine was less than .5 ppm, so there was no fuel dilution.

As for oil Joe Gibbs makes a good high ZDDP oil for normal street use, Brad Penn makes a high ZDDP semi synthetic for street use as well. I would go with Joe Gibbs now as you don't have that many mile for a synthetic.
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby Muad'Dib » July 22nd, 2011, 8:59 pm

I was worried about the oil, so i called around today. Fortunatly someone locally had some 10w30 Valvoline VR1. So i changed the oil and dropped the last ZDDP plus down with it.

AFR staying 14.7 now that i fixed that o2 relay. Only other current thing that has me kinda weirded out is that damn gurgling sound lol.

Today i took the Jeep over to the machine shop and i talked to one of the machist there. He said he just worked on a 2001 or something like that and he helped his buddy build an engine. He said that they built a 4.0 non stroker and put about 5000 into it with a custom comp cam and HS roller rockers etc etc. He said he thinks they got about 320 Horses out of that puppy... i thought wow.. that must be one hot non stroker :huh:

Anyway, so far i think the stroker definetly has more power. Im just not sure how impressed i am with it yet. I kinda feel like i dropped alot of coin down and possibly made a bad cam choice. It pulls hard, but i dunno i just feel underwhelmed right now. I guess i need to wait till everything settled in and get it dynod to really see what kind of power im making. I also think i need to adjust my TV cable as the shifts are alot smoother then i remember unless all the power is slipping the tranny :banghead:
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby dwg86 » July 23rd, 2011, 11:09 am

Maud'Dib I felt the same way with my stroker. It definitely had more power than the stock 4.0, but with all the money I dropped...I don't know if it was worth it. That is why I am going V8 this time. Good job on the build :cheers:
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby 92tank » July 24th, 2011, 1:20 pm

if your stroker is like mine you will be dissappointed at wide open from a dead stop but up to just shy of wot it pulls like a train. i dont know if the heads dont flow enough at wide open (topic allreadry discussed i know) or what but it just does not feel like it should. but i do know that little cars dont like to play with the jeep after it stomps there a** the first time. :mrgreen: my next project for mine will be a cowl hood with gills on the side and an air filter system mounted to the valve cover sealed and insulated tucked in to the cowl for hopfully a ram air affect.
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Re: Muad'Dib 4.7L stroker build

Postby Muad'Dib » July 24th, 2011, 5:36 pm

The stroker is still strong. Still feeling a little let down and feel like maybe cam choice is ok.. but head is crap. This is all Butt dyno mind you, and i can always build another head if after i get it on a real dyno i find out im not making very much power. I was shooting for around 275... so we will see in the coming months. Ive got bald tires on it and i was hoping for it to break loose at part throttle off the line or a strong pull going slower. Either its spinning and im not hearing it or something else is up.

FYI i shortened my TV cable by about 1/2" and the shifts are much better. I just didnt have it measured correctly is all.
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