Timing issue

Performance mods and Advanced Stroker discussion.

Timing issue

Postby ZOID » September 22nd, 2008, 3:52 pm

Hey, first and for most, finally a forum for us "stroked folk" nice to see. Thank you

I have a 4.7 that i built about 4+ years ago. Some history on the motor is it has a cam kit, and it was balanced. This balancing is what is coming back to kill me, The engine was built and balanced with what i believe to be a 1991-92 flex plate. The original jeep that the engine was in was going to be a 1990 Renix unit. Obviously i realized that not all jeep flex plates are the same. So on a Saturday i took the Renix (1990) flywheel out to a machine shop to be externally balanced, thus leaving me with this extra from a 1991-92 right? Well like all us hardcore Jeep wheelers the 1990 has had it! Before i kill all including the engine, I thought i would put it into a 1995 Cherokee that i had just finished building, I did so, and in looking at the 1991-92 flex plate they looked exactly the same. The problem is after it all got put back together the timing is off. I have checked all timing aspects with #1 cylinder bla bla... The only thing i keep coming back to is that flex plate. Does anyone out there know if there is a physical difference between an early high output flex plate and a 1995 flex plate?
Any incite would be awesome

:banghead:

P.S. I new the timing is off per a timing light... the mark is at about 12 o clock at what seems to be an idol. And yes i checked the CPS for both cleanliness and ohms.
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Re: Timing issue

Postby John » September 22nd, 2008, 4:10 pm

Two different part numbers for sure,

#FRA 410 Only one flexplate for 87-90

#FRA 480 Only one flexplate for 91-95

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Re: Timing issue

Postby ZOID » September 22nd, 2008, 5:10 pm

Your right there is at least 2 different flex plates, I have been using the Renix witch is what... 87-90? the engine was also balanced with one that appears to be just like the 95 flex plate. But I'm thinking it was a 91 or 92? My question is this: Is there a difference between 91-95 flex plates? Maybe High output and non H/O? If so do they look almost identical?

P.S again the Renix flex plate that I have been using is different than the one I used (both balanced) to take the motor and install it into the 95',

Thanks for all your input it means a lot. 8-)
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Re: Timing issue

Postby amcinstaller » September 22nd, 2008, 6:21 pm

the 91-95 flex plate/flywheels have different markings than the renix, like you already know. its either two sets of three and a set of four, or the other way around. pretty sure its like i have there. it also looks like it could bolt up about 6 different ways. is it on right? maybe it is, but just an idea. :huh:
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Re: Timing issue

Postby ZOID » September 22nd, 2008, 6:56 pm

Again awesome idea, but the flex plate only bolts onto the crank one way right? If not it took me like 5 tries in bolting that thing on... Trust me my wife distracted me when the engine was going in... so it came back out to install the flex plate!!!
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Re: Timing issue

Postby 1bolt » September 22nd, 2008, 7:11 pm

The Renix flex plate has different notches for the crank position sensor, than an HO... Renix 87-90 and the HO (91 to 2006) use different fuel injections systems. The flex plates are not interchangeable. Not at all. Assuming you used the wiring harness and ECU that were already in the 95 Cherokee, then you need an HO Flexplate....

That's all your problem is... no matter how you index the Renix flexplate your HO fuel injection system will not run with it.
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Re: Timing issue

Postby ZOID » September 22nd, 2008, 7:53 pm

I'm sorry my first post was not very clear, my fault. I am not using anything from the Renix set up, I had 3 flex plates in possession. One was the Renix-this was and is not used. The other one was from the stock 1995 Cherokee. This one was not balanced, as the engine was I did not use this one either. I did have one that appeared to be the exact same as the 1995 but to my knowledge is out of a 91-92. I put this one in, mind you this is the only thing besides the long block that was not from the original 95 engine. But it looked exactly the same? The issue I am having is in the timing. At this point i am wondering if i just need to remove that flex plate and put the 95 back in balanced of course? Or a 92 or so PCM? Just looking for some ideas. And if there was ever a difference between 91-95 flex plates at all? Or have any of you ran into this ever before?
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Re: Timing issue

Postby yuppiexj » September 23rd, 2008, 4:54 am

Some say they are all the same 91-95. (I agree, they are all functionally identical)

BUT, OEM part numbers are as follows

XJ AW4

5300 6324 91-92
5211 7761 93
5300 5526 94-95
5302 0578 96
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Re: Timing issue

Postby yuppiexj » September 23rd, 2008, 1:26 pm

yuppiexj wrote:Some say they are all the same 91-95. (I agree, they are all functionally identical)

BUT, OEM part numbers are as follows

XJ AW4

5300 6324 91-92
5211 7761 93
5300 5526 94-95
5302 0578 96


Standard Flywheels Flywheel part number 1002
(manual trans but the tone ring is the same)
fits 91-01 Cherokee
91-92 Comanche
91-95, 97-04 Wrangler
93-02 Grand Cherokee (I'd love to get an '02 Manual trans 4.0 Grand Cherokee)
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Re: Timing issue

Postby amcinstaller » September 23rd, 2008, 2:57 pm

when i looked at my 4.2 crank, the holes looked pretty evenly spaced all the way around. that would give someone 6 ways to index it. not sure where the tone ring holes need to be according to number one cylinder TDC. thats what i meant.
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Re: Timing issue

Postby ZOID » September 23rd, 2008, 4:29 pm

Ok i agree it looks like it would bolt on 6 diff ways. Im telling you it only goes on one way... At least this flex plate with this engine. Unless there is any other way you all could think as to why my timing is off im stuck on that flex plate. im going to attempt to compare the two with bolting the 1995 to the 1995 engine, taking a point and measuring the CPS marks from the 1991-92 to this 95 flex plate...? make sense? however i end up you will all know, this is by far the most interactive and helpful forum i have ever been on. Thank all of you no bad ideas so far whats so ever. :)
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Re: Timing issue

Postby fishyjeep » September 24th, 2008, 12:05 am

How did you check the timing?
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Re: Timing issue

Postby ZOID » September 24th, 2008, 5:54 am

With all i had, A timing light. I also took out the plugs, make sure i was on tdc, Then drop in distributor for # one, (witch if you get wrong, Its totally wrong! only one way to do that right?) Then since the timing mark is so faint i used a silver marker to see it. Hooked the light up to the # 1 cyl and battery. Now 0-4 deg is somewhere between 1 and 2 o'clock right? My timing mark is at 12 o'clock...
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Re: Timing issue

Postby fishyjeep » September 24th, 2008, 9:39 am

ZOID wrote:With all i had, A timing light. I also took out the plugs, make sure i was on tdc, Then drop in distributor for # one, (witch if you get wrong, Its totally wrong! only one way to do that right?) Then since the timing mark is so faint i used a silver marker to see it. Hooked the light up to the # 1 cyl and battery. Now 0-4 deg is somewhere between 1 and 2 o'clock right? My timing mark is at 12 o'clock...

Not sure what you mean by this statement.
If you're saying that your timing is at 12 degrees at idle that's about right.
When you put the distributor in at TDC was the timing mark on the balancer at the 0 mark on the timing cover? If not, the balancer probably slipped.
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Re: Timing issue

Postby ZOID » September 24th, 2008, 3:41 pm

I was not making reference to degrees but what it was in reference to clock position. Doesn't matter its the wrong flex plate :oops: So I guess the answer to my question is the 1995 flex plate is different than the 91-92. The reality SUCKS!! But at least now we all know right. By the way they do look almost exactly alike when looking at the timing tap cut outs, But believe you me, they are different!

Thanks again to all you for your help!! Still the best forum out there, I will not be a stranger, and hope I can help someone else like Ya'll helped me!!
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