Injector Question

[deisenba]

I recently upgraded from an 89 XJ to a 99 XJ. In the future I will be Stroking it as I already have a 12 weight crank and con rods, but until then I am trying to do some other mods. On my 89, the best mod I did was put the yellow top ford injector on it, so I am looking to put a set of Ford injectors on the 99.

I started by going here: http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsJEEP.asp Then I also looked on their website and found that those same injectors are used on the 98-03 Windstar 3.8L and 02-04 Mustang 3.8L. So then I went to the Napa Website and got a part number of CBR238772. I then cross referenced and found this site also listing other applications that may work: http://www.dmauto.com/web/dmauto/Catalo ... RB/238772/ (Just showing my homework here for anyone who might be interested) So I set out to the junk yard to find some injectors figuring I'd find a Windstar or Taurus that was unmolested for its "performance" parts. The only thing I found was a 2000 Taurus with the 3.0L engine, which is not referenced on the list, but had the same style injector. I went ahead and pulled them and $5, later had a set of 6 injectors that might work. Ford P/N YF1E-G4B. So then I found this website, which is full of all injector information. http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm It is a very usefull site when looking for injector specs by part number. I am not sure if this excel spreadsheet of the info gathered is going to work, but here goes...

Flow Rating @ Flow @ 43.5 PSI / 3 Bars .52 BSFC - Est. HP Duty Cycle Stan Weiss 7
Part Number lbs/hr cc/min grams /min PSI BARS lbs/hr cc/min 80% 95% Feed Imped Application
ance
XF2E-C4B Black Tip 19.42 204.1 146.8 43.5 3 19.42 204.1 29.9 35.5 EV6 High 2.5l, 3.0l, 3.8l
YF1E-G4B Light Blue 25.9 272.2 195.8 43.5 3 25.9 272.2 39.8 47.3 EV6 High 3.0l
53030778 Grey 23.2 243.8 175.4 49 3.38 21.86 229.7 35.7 42.4 - - 4-2.5l, 6-4.0l,
XR3E 24 252.2 181.4 - - - - 36.9 43.8 - - Ford DOHC 4.6,


P/N 53030778 is the stock injector from Dino's website http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/tech_specs.html

Now to the question. Taking what Dino said 91-'95 4.0 injectors are rated at 22lb/hr @ 43psi fuel pressure, so at 39psi they flow ( sq. rt.(39/43) x 22.0 = 21.0lbs/hr ), and applying that to the '96-'99 injector I get 23.3lb/hr @ 49psi fuel pressure, so on the YF1E injector I get (sq.rt. (49/43.5) x 25.9 = 27.5 lbs/hr.

This is about 4.3lbs/hr higher than stock. Is this too much to run stock? Will it be ok to use once I am stroked to 4.5L or 4.6L?

Also, when I run the numbers on fiveomotorsports recommended stock replacement, I get 20.6lbs/hr or about 2.6lbs/hr less than stock. Does that make sense?

I am trying to upgrade my injectors on the cheap, so if people don't think that the injectors will work, let me know and I'll get back on the research. How much above/below the stock rating is safe to go? How much will the computer compensate for? Once I figure out some of the years and models of vehicles that will work, I'll post that to help others out.

Thanks

[SilverXJ]

They will probably be to big for stock, especially in open loop (when the PCM isn't looking at the O2 sensors). I am running the XR3E on my 4.6L stroker and they are probably the best fit I can find, but they do run a bit rich in open loop.

One note on salvage yard injectors is that they may be stuck from sitting with fuel in them. I bought mine on ebay and both sets they sent me were frozen in either open or closed. $80 later for a cleaning and they work good.. and I still have a second set that I could send off for cleaning and sell. Still, if you have to spend $80 on top of the $5 you spent on the injectors you will still come out ahead.

[coas]

I've posted this on a different BBs so here is a copy paste of my original post:

There are better alternative for the right injectors, Renix should use the same flow injectors as the HO, the stock injectors for Renix flow 240cc, HO flow 248cc (up to 95) and 234cc (96- up). BUT, the Renix and OBDI flow at 39PSI and the later 4.0L flow at 49.

Injectors flow is always measured at 3 Bar, 43.5PSI. This is a reference point and from this you can calculate the flow to your system working pressure.

So, why not Ford Bosch 0280155710? because of the above, flow about 210cc, and doesn't have a clip nut for holding the injectors leveled.

Why not FMS A302 255cc? too much flow for any stock 4.0L and old design, not as efficient as the newer EV6 Bosch injectors.

The better alternatives are in house injectors, Neon 2.4L 95-96 have 238cc injectors in it, 0280155703, these are EV6 4 holes injectors with clip nut. Better fuel economy, better throttle response, better power.
The disadvantage is that you'll need to take these out of two cars..

Another alternative are the LS1 injectors 0280155890, flow a bit less than the Neon injectors at 3 bar but will do just fine in any 4.0L. Some refers to these as 26.6lb/hr injectors but this is the flow at 4bar, at 39PSI/2.7bar will flow 21lb/hr

So why replacing 248cc/min injectors 238cc/min? the EV6 injectors are capable of better atomization of the fuel hence less fuel is needed each stroke for the right A/F mixture.

If there is a need for more flow one can use the 96-97 Taurus/Sable V6 injectors, 0280155715, these are EV6 without clip nut and flow exactly the same at the FMS A302. Or LS1 0280155931 which flow a bit less but does have clip nut. Both will out perform the older EV1.3 A302 injectors.

One addition for strokers owners who use A302 (0280150947) with a pressure higher than 39PSI, this injector was meant working on 39PSI only, excessive pressure will result in either “hosing” or a spray angle that is too large for the targeted area dependent on the injector profile. The consequence of excessive fuel pressure on a pintle type injector may well be that as the pressure is increased the mixture values of the engine may appear to get leaner.
Later design fuel injectors [type code EV 6] use “director plate” multi-orifice technology to better atomise fuel across various operating pressures.
These injectors allow more flexibility in relation to operating pressures without compromising spray efficiency or fuel atomisation.

Last, don't use lb/hr for rating injectors flow, as it always derived from cc/min since injectors flow is Always measured using cc measuring tube. Some use 10.5 for calculating lb/hr, others use 10.4 and neither is correct.

Stock Neon 2.4L injectors, 0280155703.



Here is a complete list for the 0280155703, 2.0L or 2.4L:

CHRYSLER CIRRUS LX (1995 - 1997)
CHRYSLER CIRRUS LXI 1997
CHRYSLER SEBRING JX (1996 - 1997)
CHRYSLER SEBRING JXI 1997
DODGE CARAVAN (1996 - 1997)
DODGE CARAVAN SE (1996 - 1997)
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN (1996 - 1997)
DODGE GRAND CARAVAN SE (1996 - 1997)
DODGE NEON (1995 - 1997)
DODGE NEON HIGHLINE (1995 - 1997)
DODGE NEON SPORT (1995 - 1997)
DODGE STRATUS (1995 - 1997)
DODGE STRATUS ES (1995 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH BREEZE 1996
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER (1996 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH GRAND VOYAGER SE (1996 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH NEON (1995 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH NEON HIGHLINE (1995 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH NEON SPORT 1995
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER (1996 - 1997)
PLYMOUTH VOYAGER SE (1996 - 1997)


Forgot to mention that these are all with jetronic connector, as in the above picture. For later model the injectors are already EV6 but if there is a need for more flow then the 1999 only Taurus/Sable injectors, 0280155849 will flow 265cc/min @ 43.5 PSI, same as the A302 but with USCAR connector.

[coas]

One note on salvage yard injectors is that they may be stuck from sitting with fuel in them. I bought mine on ebay and both sets they sent me were frozen in either open or closed. $80 later for a cleaning and they work good.. and I still have a second set that I could send off for cleaning and sell. Still, if you have to spend $80 on top of the $5 you spent on the injectors you will still come out ahead.

I was looking for an efficient and cost effective way for cleaning injectors, I came up with the following which turn out to be quite effective, if I may say..
DIY injectors cleaner:

5cc syringe
JY injector plug
12V transformer or your car battery
Carburetor cleaning spray
A momentary switch




reverse flush

[SilverXJ]

That might work for some cases, but if they are stuck, I doubt it will do anything.

[coas]

Well, it did. not with dozens but with the few stuck ones I had it did free the deposits and they worked like the others.