Flywheel Differences

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Flywheel Differences

Postby FLKracker » July 8th, 2010, 9:05 am

I have been searching for information on flywheel differences and swapology.... There isn't a flywheel post in the FAQ section, so I decided that this would be the best place to post my questions... (If not, Mods. please move this to wherever you deem more appropriate.. Thanks!)

I am planning to use a CPS on my harmonic balancer and will not need the shutter wheel on the flywheel. So I am trying to determine what flywheel I should try to find, that will give me the most torque and mate to my AX15...

My questions are:
What are the differences between the flywheels from different years and different AMC/Jeep Inline Six Cylinders???
Which flywheels will interchange with which engines and what are the ramifications of each swap??
What is the weight of each flywheel?? (Heavier means more inertia..)
What are the differences in the shutter spacing on different 4.0L flywheels?? (Renix vs HO)
Balance differenes?? Internal vs External??
Are there any other differences???


Thanks,
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby IH 392 » July 8th, 2010, 8:53 pm

FLKracker wrote:My questions are:
What are the differences between the flywheels from different years and different AMC/Jeep Inline Six Cylinders???
Which flywheels will interchange with which engines and what are the ramifications of each swap??
What is the weight of each flywheel?? (Heavier means more inertia..)
What are the differences in the shutter spacing on different 4.0L flywheels?? (Renix vs HO)
Balance differenes?? Internal vs External??
Are there any other differences???



'64-'70, 199/232 SMALL flywheel.
'71+?? early style crank flange for Borg Warner automatics.
'72up new style crank flange for use with the Chrysler automatics.
'87-'90 4.0
'91 up 4.0

I believe that any '72 up flywheel will bolt up (properly) to any '72 up crank, I don't know for sure?, there may be a ring gear offset difference in there some where too?, the V8's DO have it, not sure about the sixes?

The injection flywheel must match the injection system your using, the renix flywheel has twice or three times as many peckers on it than the OBD flywheel does.

They are all internal balance.
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby FLKracker » July 9th, 2010, 1:10 am

Thanks IH 392 !!! That is great info... :rockout:

Does anyone know about the ring gear offset??
Also, are 258 manual trans. flywheels heaver or lighter that 4.0 manual trans. flywheels???
Do all I-6 manual flywheels use the same size clutch disc???

Sorry for all the questions, but inquiring minds want to know.... :lol: :mrgreen:
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby amcinstaller » July 9th, 2010, 7:17 am

there is a difference in where the ring gear is. just match the starter to flywheel/flexplate. also keep in mind the 4.0 starter has the solenoid strapped to it, while the 4.2 ones dont. also, the 4.2 ones are HUGE!!!
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby FLKracker » July 9th, 2010, 7:45 pm

That's more good info, Thanks amcintaller! :D

Ok, I hate to ask but, does anyone have an assortment of manual flywheels that they can weigh??? All I have are automatic flywheels that I can weigh... :(

I would like to know what manual flywheel is the heaviest, so I know what to look for on the forums and at the U-Pullit. Although there are not alot of AMC/Jeep parts at my local U-Pullit... :(


Again, thanks to all for your help
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby FLKracker » July 9th, 2010, 10:47 pm

Just looked through my Centerforce Catalog and found that the Centerforce flywheels are spec'ed at 27.5 pounds for all Jeep I6 engines. I'm not sure how this compares to the actual weight of the different stock flywheels though...???

Also have been able to find the following Jeep Part Number info on the internet, but don't know their validity and no weights were given:

53020519AB =
97-04 TJ 4.0L
91-95 YJ 4.0L
91-01 XJ 4.0L
93-96 ZJ 4.0L

3240094 =
82-86 CJ5,7,8 4.2L
87 YJ 4.2L
82-87 SJ 4.2L

3212623 =
72-79 232 or 258

33002672 =
88-90 YJ 4.0L :?: (Listed on the Morris 4x4 site as for 4.2L)
87-90 XJ 4.0L


I will continue to search for further info on specs. However, their weight differences will probably not be great enough to make a noticable torque improvement. The 12 weight crank vs 4 weight crank probably has more influence....

Probably just :deadhorse:

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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby IH 392 » July 9th, 2010, 10:52 pm

The 258 flywheel is probably your best bet, the 4.0 flywheels are similar but have the outside machined for the CPS so they are a little lighter in the inertia department, the biggest clutch you can fit on it will help inertia also.
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby FLKracker » July 10th, 2010, 5:57 am

Yeah that is what I have been thinking also... BTW there were some 258s installed in Scouts, do you know what flywheel they used?? Was it the same as the Jeep??

I have always been intrigued by the inertia ring that Tri County Gear was offering... But I have not seen it advertised in sometime now?? I am not sure how or where it actually attaches... I used to add weight to my motorcycle flywheels years ago when I rode trials and know that it can make a difference in energy.

Thanks again for your input!!!
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby IH 392 » July 10th, 2010, 9:53 am

FLKracker wrote: BTW there were some 258s installed in Scouts, do you know what flywheel they used?? Was it the same as the Jeep??


They are straight up AMC flywheels, nothing special, I have a 258 out of a '75 IH 200 3/4 ton truck for my 12wt crank and the only part on it that's not from AMC is the carburetor.
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby amcinstaller » July 10th, 2010, 2:24 pm

and if the IH is anything like the cars, its probly the motorcraft somethin or other. or the carter or weber. i forget which one, my car came to me with a carter, but i keep getting bachsed every time i open my mouth about them coming with carters
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby FLKracker » July 10th, 2010, 4:56 pm

amcinstaller: I am pretty sure that the 258 that I got my 12wt crank out of had a Carter on it.... :cheers:

IH392: What is your stroker in?? Do you have a flywheel that you could throw on a bathroom scale?? :mrgreen:
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby 5-90 » July 11th, 2010, 5:32 pm

FLKracker wrote:Thanks IH 392 !!! That is great info... :rockout:

Does anyone know about the ring gear offset??
Also, are 258 manual trans. flywheels heaver or lighter that 4.0 manual trans. flywheels???
Do all I-6 manual flywheels use the same size clutch disc???

Sorry for all the questions, but inquiring minds want to know.... :lol: :mrgreen:


The "flywheel" (more generally, "flyweights") is/are used to "even out" the power pulses from combustion. As you probably know, the internal-combustion engine doesn't /constantly/ make power, it develops it in pulses. The flywheel is used (through inertia) to smooth out the delivery of power, keep things running, and keep things running /smoothly/.

The flywheel used ahead of the manual transmission is (generally) cast iron or steel, and close to an inch thick. The clutch assembly is screwed to the flywheel, and forms part of the flyweight as well (in addition to being a selectable mechanical coupling for power transmission.) The clutch cover has a large cast (usually) iron ring in it, and this forms the balance of the flyweight. An "inertia ring" of heavy metal may also be added to the backside (engine side) of the flywheel if desired - it will reduce throttle response somewhat, but it will also help to increase idle stability and low-throttle takeoff.

There is no "flywheel" /per/ /se/ between an automatic transmission and the engine - that's simply a "flexplate" - which is stamped from steel. The ring gear is welded to the perimeter of the plate, and a trigger wheel is also often welded on (in late-model vehicles.) Figure the flexplate weighs about a pound or two - vice fifteen to twenty for the flywheel (and another 15-20 for the clutch cover, typically.)

The function of "flyweight," for the automatic transmission, is taken up by the torque converter itself. This is a secondary function - the torque converter is also a /variable/ mechanical coupling (allowing 0% transmission for idling in place, running up to 85% or so for "full" power transmission - unless and until the torque converter clutch is engaged, at which point it becomes a 1:1 coupling just like that for a mechanical clutch.) The torque converter has a number of heavy internal components, and has a gallon or so of fluid in it, which offers the functional flyweight.

I've only seen /one/ application in the last thirty years that had a true "flywheel" with a torque converter - that was for a 1960's Massey-Fergusson tractor, converted to a forklift, with a semiautomatic transmission (There was a flywheel, the torque converter, another flywheel, a clutch assembly, and /then/ the transmission. The whole thing had been welded together by the owner as a "fix" for a transmission problem - and I ended up having to cut it apart, send out the TC to be cleaned up, and machine out a new flywheel from billet stock. That was about a four thousand-dollar job... The whole assembly was good for about 90-100 pounds of rotational mass used as a flyweight! The torque converter had a fill plug, a drain plug, and its own fluid fill separate from the transmission...)

Ring gear offset can be determined by checking starter applications - figure out which starters are used on a given engine (per application,) and then go to a starter parts catalogue and look into the nose housings and Bendix drives for dimensions (most flywheel catalogues don't have dims. I'm still trying to find one that does.)

As far as clutch discs, I know the later 242ci I6 can use the same clutch disc with the BA-10/5, AX-15i, AX-15e, or NV3550 (10.5" diameter, 1.125"-10 input spline,) and I believe that is a common dimension - I'm still correlating my research for _Swawppology_. Yeah - I'd coined the word before this board did (sorry, guys!) and it's the title of a set of reference books I'm working on (one volume for Jeep, one for AMC, and one for IHC.) Consider these my "second" book - and it's a lot more work than the first (I was able to do the first mostly from memory, and I'd written it to pass the time when I needed something to do. This one started out as a reference for myself, and it grew from there...)
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby FLKracker » July 11th, 2010, 9:29 pm

Thanks 5-90!!
Great write-up on "flyweights"... :worship:

As far as Pressure Plates go... Of the three major types, (the Long style, the Borg & Beck, and the Diaphragm), I believe that the Borg & Beck style would weigh more than "most" Diaphragm type pressure plates... Therefore, it would produce more "flyweight" effect. However, I am not familiar enough with Jeep bellhousings, to know whether the Borg & Beck would fit inside. I did notice that the photos of the Centerforce flywheels for Jeeps, show that they are drilled for both bolt patterns. :huh:

Also, from the photos of 258 and 4.0L flywheels that I have seen, the 258 seems to have slightly less metal to it. On the 258 flywheel, the ring gear appears to be fully exposed. However, the "tone ring" on the 4.0L flywheel appears to extend out to the edge of the ring gear teeth. According to the parts lists that I have seen, all Jeep L6 ring gears are the same. (Although, as amcinstaller noted above, the ring gears mount at different depths on the flywheels.) I know that this is probably not much weight difference, I am still curious as to which flywheel is actually heavier....
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby 5-90 » July 12th, 2010, 4:15 pm

FLKracker wrote:Thanks 5-90!!
Great write-up on "flyweights"... :worship:

As far as Pressure Plates go... Of the three major types, (the Long style, the Borg & Beck, and the Diaphragm), I believe that the Borg & Beck style would weigh more than "most" Diaphragm type pressure plates... Therefore, it would produce more "flyweight" effect. However, I am not familiar enough with Jeep bellhousings, to know whether the Borg & Beck would fit inside. I did notice that the photos of the Centerforce flywheels for Jeeps, show that they are drilled for both bolt patterns. :huh:

Also, from the photos of 258 and 4.0L flywheels that I have seen, the 258 seems to have slightly less metal to it. On the 258 flywheel, the ring gear appears to be fully exposed. However, the "tone ring" on the 4.0L flywheel appears to extend out to the edge of the ring gear teeth. According to the parts lists that I have seen, all Jeep L6 ring gears are the same. (Although, as amcinstaller noted above, the ring gears mount at different depths on the flywheels.) I know that this is probably not much weight difference, I am still curious as to which flywheel is actually heavier....


Hm. Wondering if I should add an "Engineering Basics" section to _Swappology_, or just start a basic automotive engineering handbook as well (considering some of the references I've got around here, it's possible. Considering how some of those references read, I think I could make the subject less likely to put most people to sleep! Hmm...)
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Re: Flywheel Differences

Postby Zorm » October 4th, 2010, 6:11 am

Not hijack this thread but this is kinda related.
Does anyone know if a starter from a 258 will mesh with a 4.0 flywheel? I am planing either a 4.0 engine swap or for now, putting the 4.0 FI on my 258 with the 4.0 head. Either way, I was planning on keeping the T176 and getting the bell housing machined by Novak Adapters for the CPS, and using the 4.0 flywheel, that is if the starter gear will mesh. The other option is to get the CPS setup from Hesco for the front of the engine.

thanks for input
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