In Topic:  258 con rod numbers (707 vs 352),  IH 392 posted…

707's are more common, I don't think that I've ever even seen a set of 352's?, just like the 12 CW cranks are more common, I think I've seen two that didn't have full counter weights???

In Topic:  306.5in stroker,  heartlandoffroad posted…

Mgardiner1
You are exactly correct. There is not clearance issues at all. Actually there is more room than in most strokers because the BE journal size is so much smaller.

As for rod and piston design the rod is a 6.400 long 1.771 BE and a .750 pin end and for the piston it is a custom engineered piston with a 18cc dish. It is all on the spreadsheet.

Update on engine
We are almost done with the block.
Got the head final assembled. (good)
Crank clearances were checked (good)
Rods were checked and rechecked. (good)
Pistons are balanced and clearance checked. (good)

In Topic:  Simple/Budget Stroker Build 2000 WJ 4.0 to 4.5,  bratcop posted…

I don't think stock injectors would have worked on my build, as I match ported and relief ported the intake runners and manifold and polised the exhaust runners. I think that along with the bored TB will make it breath better and therefore require more gas. I have had no O2 sensor CEL thusfar and the thing idles like a dream, so I think I found the right combination. We expected it to be hunting a bit at idle to find the correct fuel mix, but that is definately not the case.

I got the injectors on ebay for $75 for a set of rebuilt EV6 connectors. I think it is worth it for a couple of reasons...they are 4 port injectors which would lead me to believe they create a finer fuel mist and better mixture, as the stocks are one port. Also, they are reconditioned/rebuilt/low mileage, which I know must be better than the stock ones at 95000 miles...

and for the record, I checked the stock valve springs, found them to still be within specs and stayed with them and all stock valvetrain. I have had no problems so far, and I decked the block .030...It saves alot of dough and my quench is around.042 to .048...

Good Luck. Let me know if you need any part numbers as I have a bunch in a spread sheet I created, with approx costs.

If it needs to be bored, big deal, it will only add a bit to the machine cost and will give you more cubes...I would recommend staying with the same block, as it is so much easier to just re-install parts than it is to fabricate brackets and the such. I don't mind that kind of work if you have all the tools at your disposal, but I do not have a fabrication area/shop in my garage....

and let the flames begin, but I reused the 0331 head and still have my fingers crossed...the odds, statistically speaking, have to be in our favor.

Bratcop

In Topic:  Another cam question from a newbie,  Mgardiner1 posted…

there are tons more factors involved in a camshaft then JUST duration. Lift, Duration, Lobe seperation, Ramp speed, Centerline angles.... These are all characteristics that "define" what the cam should be expected to do. If you are interested in getting more low end torque, or higher end horsepower, I'd suggest a little googling on the characteristics in a camshaft, and what each aspect effects. I think the cam, and its effects, are the trickiest part to learning of how any engine produces power. If you can get a decent understanding on that, and can even just narrow down your cam selection, then you should pat yourself on the back and have a beer

In Topic:  Another cam question from a newbie,  Exos posted…

Could someone explain to me what are the benefits of using a performance cam as opposed to my stock cam ('93) on my stroker build?

Stock cam has duration of 270/270, and gives me a better DCR than let's say Comp 232-4 (250/256). So why should I buy a new cam and stiffer springs? Is valve lift the key here?

In Topic:  258 con rod numbers (707 vs 352),  dwg86 posted…

No idea why people say the 707's are better. I got a set of 352's that I polished and shot peened. I don't see a problem with running them. If you sell your 352's let me know.

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  Mgardiner1 posted…

With the timing mark on the the damper lined up on zero at TDC, it sounds/reads like the trailing edge of the rotor should be lined up with the furthest edge of the electrode. I guess this is to offset any advance of timing that will happen (as i don't think any ECU retards timing, except potentially during cranking). I know the newer jeeps with coil packs are known to be real picky if the cam position sensor is detected "out of sync", i just don't think my OBD 1 ECU is advanced enough to know the difference in a few degrees of timing on the dizzy. However, since i have no other logical explanation, other then replacing sensors (i HATE HATE HATE changing parts, i am NOT a parts changer, i'm a MECHANIC), its worth a stab at it, and costs me nothing.

In Topic:  cylinder bore question,  SilverXJ posted…

I don't know what springs the Hesco units are, but other springs can be made to work as well. As far as machining for the MP springs, most people don't. I did because they are about 113# seat pressure at installed height (1.64"). I wanted 100#, so I have the seats machined a bit to get them to 100#.

In Topic:  258 con rod numbers (707 vs 352),  03GC posted…

Does anyone know why the 707 rods are better than the 352? I picked up a set of 352s and then did some checking on numbers after(bass-ackward just like usual. This is why my projects cost twice what they should ).

I plan on putting ARP bolts in and re-sizing big end.

I am not building a race engine , but if the 707s are really better, I'll sell these and find a set.

Thanks for any info

Paul

In Topic:  Help Exhaust manifold compatibility,  81J10 posted…

I've got a 91 4.6 stroker that I am going to add Mopar (hesco) MPI to, Hesco recommended that I use a set of later model cast iron exhaust manifolds, so
I bought a set. I just bought a 91 gasket and I was going to do some porting to match, but it doesn't look like the gasket lines up with the manifold. (hesco say's no problem). Hoping someone has experience with this and can let me know. I had planned to do a little porting ,ceramic coat ,then run duals. Any help
is apppreciated. Thanks in advance

In Topic:  cylinder bore question,  Exos posted…

Thanks for the reply. One more and I leave you alone for a while...

Hesco sells HD valve springs (HESSPRSS6). Are these the same as Mopar perf.? They mention that machining of the head will be required to achieve correct installed height. Do you have to have some machining done with Mopar perf. springs too?

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  dwg86 posted…

I sent you the distributor link because in your earlier post you said "I know other people with aftermarket cams have had to index the distributor, and i can't remember where the ideal position was, the leading/middle/trailing edge of the rotor". So I thought the distributor link might help. I hope you get it figured out. I know if it was my jeep I might want to it up!

In Topic:  cylinder bore question,  SilverXJ posted…

The push rod length in the FSM is an acceptable range of pushrod length. I don't know how much a factory push rod would be off from the next, but it will fall in that range.

I wouldn't recommend a HV pump. Just a new regular pump. I have never heard of a HV pump being needed in these engines and if it is not then it is a waste of power and extra stain on the cam gear to have to turn it.

An FTC (Fuel/Timing Calibrator) is a piggy back computer by Split Second that allows you to adjust the the fuel curve in open loop.
http://www.splitsec.com/products/ftc1/ftc1ds.htm

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  Mgardiner1 posted…

Dave thanks for the e-mails. I would not say my distributor is indexed perfectly, but relatively close. I'm not really sure how the index of the distributor being a few degrees off would create this problem (especially knowing it seems to be effected by heat)

Needless to say, if i locate a CPS tomorrow and try installing it with ill results, i'll cut the ears and rotate the dizzy

In Topic:  306.5in stroker,  Mgardiner1 posted…

I don't think rod bolt to cam clearance will be an issue. The rod shouldn't be any closer to the sidewall of the engine during the middle of its stroke, as the the inside of the journal is being ground, and the outside is not being built up. The only part that will vary slightly is the angle of the dangle when the rod is mid stroke

In Topic:  Simple/Budget Stroker Build 2000 WJ 4.0 to 4.5,  Mgardiner1 posted…

good GAWD what a dummy....... lol funny part is i scanned through most of the thread looking for that answer..... that will teach me to post when i roll out of bed in the AM

In Topic:  306.5in stroker,  Cheromaniac posted…

I'd be interested to know what rods/pistons he used without the pistons coming out of the bore at BDC, how he managed to clearance the block/oil pan from the rod bolts, and how he can avoid contact between the rod bolts and the cam for that 4.20" stroke. Sounds too good to be true when the highest stroke anyone has ever dared to use in the 4.0 block is 4.06" (Jakes Racing Engines 5.0L stroker) and nobody knows if that was reliable ('cause JRE went out of business soon after they built it).

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  dwg86 posted…

Send me a PM with your email so I can send the links with pics on the crank pos sensor check, and the cam pos sensor install.

In Topic:  cylinder bore question,  Exos posted…

SilverXJ, I have three pending questions :

-My '98 XJ FSM says this about pushrods : Push Rod Length . . . . . . . .244.856 to 245.364 mm
(9.640 to 9.660 in.) So what's the truth?

-You said you wouldn't use the old oil pump, are you suggesting/using a HV pump, like Melling?

-You mentionned "FTC" about fuel control, what is it, I did not find anything?

Thanks.

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  Mgardiner1 posted…

hmmmmm let me tell you how frustrating it is to try and test the male side of a round pin connector! I could not find a resistance lower then 380 ohm. I'll search locally for a new sensor tomorrow.... Thanks for the alldata info dave

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  Mgardiner1 posted…

Its dark out now (not that ever stopped me before....) but i will try



ok i'll brb.... LOL

EDIT: also wanted to add, i rolled the engine up to TDC, popped the dizzy top, and the rotor was dead centered on the #1 electrode. I know other people with aftermarket cams have had to index the distributor, and i can't remember where the ideal position was, the leading/middle/trailing edge of the rotor.

In Topic:  Finalizing Plans for Simple Stroker Build - Help,  Cheromaniac posted…

go4lo wrote:
I've been out of the loop for the last week traveling. Just a few updates and questions:

New 0331 Head from Alabama Cylinder Head is on order - $530 shipped, should have it tomorrow.
Machine shop/friend quoted me $350 to bore/hone/wash and assemble the short block with all my supplied parts

Questions:
Following Dino's Poor Man's build can someone(or Dino) explain why the Sealed Power 677CP pistons are used instead of the H802CP/H825CP?
It's hard to find the 677CPs - anyone know of a good source?

Can I use use 4.0 crankshaft main bearings on the 4.2 crank? If so I assume the correct plan of action would be to order the reman 4.2 crank and have the machinist tell me what bore size 4.0 bearings to order?

The 677CP pistons will yield a lower CR than the H802/H825CP's thus avoiding low rpm detonation problems if you decide to use the stock cam. My stroker has a 9.25:1 CR with no decking of the block/head.
You have a '00 4.0 block so you'll need the 4.0 HO main bearings. The 4.2 main bearings won't work but you can use the 4.2 rod bearings. If you know what undersize the rod and main journals of your 4.2 crank have been reground to, you can order the appropriate undersize bearings. You'll find a list of part numbers on my stroker build site, and you'll find further useful information on the "assembly" page.

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  dwg86 posted…

This is from alldatapro.com, on how to test the crank position sensor ...
Disconnect the engine speed sensor electrical connector from the wiring harness. Check the resistance of the sensor by placing an ohmmeter across terminals A and B (marked on sensor connector). With the engine at normal operating temperature, the ohmmeter should read 200 ±75 ohms. Replace sensor if ohmmeter readings are not within specifications.

That's for a 91 jeep wrangler

Hope this helps

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  Mgardiner1 posted…

I agree 110%.... My sensor only has a few hundred miles on it, and i modified it to make it closer to the flywheel to make the signal stronger. The few times i have experienced a problem with a faulty CPS, the engine usually will not start. However, that is the next sensor on my list that will be changed

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  dwg86 posted…

I was talking with a friend that owns an auto shop. He says to check the crank position sensor. He's pretty sharp, and said that jeeps are know for the cps to go bad.

In Topic:  Sexy stroker turned into Bucking Bronco...,  Mgardiner1 posted…

Thank you very much to Boilermaker, i received another ECU today. However, the problem is still exactly the same.... Furious, i drove down to the autoparts store and picked up a coil...... and its exactly the same.... Disconnected the tach lead, even added an ADDITIONAL ground from the block to the battery, exactly the same....

FOR SALE 87 YJ with serious damn issues......

I'm really getting sick of this

In Topic:  anyone running a 4.6L stroker with a supercharger,  Mgardiner1 posted…

I had originally thought about doing the same, and i was going to build my jeep with boost friendly compression and cam, but i realized how much more it would cost to add boost, and decided to leave it all motor.

In Topic:  anyone running a 4.6L stroker with a supercharger,  --jeep-- posted…

I am thinking of adding a supercharger to my Hesco 4.6L stroker. I was wanting a centrifugal type supercharger like a vortech or paxton and run 4-5 pounds boost. I have tried searching and so far the only thing i could find is that you need to run 30lb injectors. The vehicle is a 1994 Jeep YJ OBDI with unichip compression is 8.8:1. Anyone else have any writups or any info on installing one, i have heard there is a lot of problems with getting a stroker supercharged.

In Topic:  Stock valve springs,  SilverXJ posted…

I forgot about calculating it. I even had a spread sheet laid out so all I had to do was plug the numbers in, which I had.

In Topic:  Stock valve springs,  dwg86 posted…

I can calculate the open pressure from the stock valve spring specs from alldata.com. The stock closed spec is; 71-79# on the seat at 1.640. Open 202-218 @ 1.216. That would be .420 valve lift. doing the calculations I come up with 330.95# spring rate. At .500 lift the spring pressure would be 244lbs.(I used the high end of the specs 79lbs on seat, and 218lbs open at .420 lift)

The stock spring rate seams high, but the installed pressure is low which keeps the open pressure low.

In Topic:  Finalizing Plans for Simple Stroker Build - Help,  go4lo posted…

The block is off to the machine shop this afternoon. I went ahead and ordered the 258 crank this morning from Atlanta Crankshaft Exchange. It was a little more pricey than I wanted to spend but considering it's a 12 counterweight, .10/.10 underbore and I should have it by Wednesday I bit the bullet and ordered it.

I assume I now just need to get 4.0L replacement rod/main bearings with a .10/.10 underbore to use with the 258 crank?

I plan to order the pistons/rings, 258 rods, and ARP bolts today. Any reason why I shouldn't use the 677cp's and keep the 17.5 dish?

In Topic:  Stock valve springs,  dwg86 posted…

No I didn't. I don't have anything to measure spring pressure with.

In Topic:  Rocker arm Geometry vs pushrod length,  John posted…

Geometry discussion also this 3 page thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=199&hilit=geometry
John

In Topic:  Stock valve springs,  SilverXJ posted…

Did you measure the load at their minimum height?

In Topic:  Simple/Budget Stroker Build 2000 WJ 4.0 to 4.5,  SilverXJ posted…

Mgardiner1 wrote:
What year jeep is the engine out of? There really hasn't been enough data to conclude which year has the crack proned heads, although it seems to be 2000-2001 era....

Check the Subject

In Topic:  Stock valve springs,  dwg86 posted…

I put a dail indicator on a stock valve spring on cracked 0331 head that I have. I was able to get a little over .550 before the spring bottomed out. The head is nasty dirty, covered in oil mixed with antifreeze. So I don't know how much more I could have got with the valve springs cleaned. I also don't know how close to the retainer got to the valve guide. If you subtract a .060 safety margin, the stock springs should be good for about a .490 lift. That's enough for most high torque cams that folks are using.I am not reccomending that someone use stock springs on a performance cam, just some info for those building a stroker on a budget or concerned about wiping out a cam with higher spring pressure from some of the aftermarket performance springs.

I didn't have a stock rocker arm to see how much lift it could take before it started to bind. That is something I would want to check before I used the stock rockers on a high lift cam.

In Topic:  Simple/Budget Stroker Build 2000 WJ 4.0 to 4.5,  Mgardiner1 posted…

What year jeep is the engine out of? There really hasn't been enough data to conclude which year has the crack proned heads, although it seems to be 2000-2001 era....

In Topic:  Simple/Budget Stroker Build 2000 WJ 4.0 to 4.5,  rradford9 posted…

bratcop wrote:
not to toot my own horn, but you have exactly what I had...take a look at my build in the projects sections...I did it for right around what you want to spend. I think I am hovering at the $1500 mark...but I didn't need an overbore, just a hone....

Bratcop

I read your build...great stuff and it should really help me out. Do you think you could have used stock injectors instead of the 24lb?

I've got my fingers crossed that it just needs re-honed...but if it needs overbored, then so be it.

In Topic:  Crankshaft/Damper Spacer,  rradford9 posted…

Is this still available?

In Topic:  MI: Jeep 258 cranks, Dana 44 stuff, & misc. other parts,  rradford9 posted…

PM'd you on the CJ crank.

In Topic:  Simple/Budget Stroker Build 2000 WJ 4.0 to 4.5,  SilverXJ posted…

Plechtan wrote:
Last time i checked, almost any component can fail. I believe what you are talking about is a component that has a high failure rate. I stick by what i said, look at the odds. I have had brand new oparts fail in a short period of time. An argument could be made to go with something proven rather than somthing that has an unknown history.

Having brand new parts fail that have a proven reliable record is one thing. Putting something that is proven to fail on a new block and hoping that it won't fail is another thing and a bad idea. As he said it is his daily driver and looking for reliability, not his weekend play toy which he can afford a failure on. $300 on a used head with a 3 angle valve job now is cheaper than the new head + block repair down the line when the head does let go and the coolant mixes with the oil.

In Topic:  Rocker arm Geometry vs pushrod length,  IH 392 posted…

I've seen tons of talk here on "pushrod length" but none (that I recall) on the proper rocker arm geometry, when there is talk of decking and such the talk always turns to pushrod length, the valve stem height has much more to do with "shimming" the pedestals than decking the block or head does (obviously heavy decking may require shorter pushrods for proper lifter preload, a lifter will soak up ALOT!), I've seen WAY! to many worn guides because an engine was slapped together with no regard to this, and with the Jeeps 8mm stems they have limited surface area. I've seen valves sunk into the seats on LP fuel engines over a 1/4" and the lifter has compensated for the change in distance from the cam to the rocker arm.
The "geometry" needs to be set and then pushrod length measured.
Here are some links that explain this subject.
http://www.compcams.com/information/Products/Pushrods/
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles ... index.html
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2007 ... -geometry/

I'm not grilling anyone here, I just feel that this is a subject that needs some addressing for our engines

In Topic:  piston pin removal?,  IH 392 posted…

The pins are easy enough to press out, to install "pressed fit" pins the rod small end is heated in a special fixture, basically a tinny little HOT! oven, some are electric and some are gas, the small end is heated to a specific temperature and it swells open and the pin is slipped into place, and as the pin cools it clamps around the pin.
I've heated them with a rose bud on the torch, you have to be careful, if it turns blue you got it to HOT!!!! and turned it to JUNK!

In Topic:  Bratcop's Stroker Build,  bratcop posted…

running update....

This thing is running like a top. After I got the CEL to stay off by resetting the cam sensor, I stopped by the machinist's shop. HE COULDN'T BELIEVE HOW SMOOTH IT RAN, AND HOW QUIET? He thought for sure it would be searching around to find the correct AF mixture with the different injectors and different stroke.

I have driven it about 1200 miles so far in weather ranging from -5*F to 40*F and have had zero problems. Took it across my great state, Lake to River (Lake Michigan to Mississippi River) and back and averaged 17mpg in AWD about half the time. I am very happy with that mileage and am still running 87 octane

I still have done nothing with the MAP sensor voltage, this is all on stock ECU...pretty cool. I plan on getting some OBDII software and Elm5 interface to see where the fuel trims are at...but for now just enjoying the hell out of it....

Happy New Year...
Bratcop

In Topic:  Simple/Budget Stroker Build 2000 WJ 4.0 to 4.5,  bratcop posted…

not to toot my own horn, but you have exactly what I had...take a look at my build in the projects sections...I did it for right around what you want to spend. I think I am hovering at the $1500 mark...but I didn't need an overbore, just a hone....

Bratcop

In Topic:  Simple/Budget Stroker Build 2000 WJ 4.0 to 4.5,  Plechtan posted…

SilverXJ wrote:
Why use a component that can fail??

Last time i checked, almost any component can fail. I believe what you are talking about is a component that has a high failure rate. I stick by what i said, look at the odds. I have had brand new oparts fail in a short period of time. An argument could be made to go with something proven rather than somthing that has an unknown history.

In Topic:  cylinder bore question,  dwg86 posted…

The comp cam springs, retainers, and locks won't work with the stock 8mm round groove valves.